Why is it survivors make non survivors defensive...

Over the last several days, as I've been a little unwell I've spent more time on facebook than normal.

Abuse seems to be the theme of the week, and the one thing that is common is that when abuse survivors speak out and share our experiences to offer some real life perspective we're roundly dismissed as being emotional, as allowing our abuse to rule our heads. I was advised to get counselling and to stop using the internet if I couldn't separate my experiences from real life, I saw a male survivor being told his abuse wasn't as bad as if it had been done by a man, a lesbian survivor told she can't have been abused as lesbians don't abuse, a gay man told he wasn't as badly off as if his abuse had been to a woman....

In each case, all the above and more, the survivor's story is being silenced because for non survivors they can't quite accept that abuse is NEVER the survivors fault. One male survivor whose story was horrendous, even compared to the many, many stories I've listened to over the years, was told he'd no doubt deserved it as he probably abused his partner first ...

None of these derisive comments were from actual survivors.

One facebook page Another Angry Voice (a political page), posted a piece critiquing a tool designed specifically for female victims of male violence, a tool which already has a male version a trans version and gender neutral versions and variations thereof. In the comments AAV actually dismissed views from survivors and professionals in DV support as contentless because they didn't support his poorly written piece.

His attitude to said survivors was that our experiences were basically irrelevant. As were the majority of the MRA commentators who supported him.


As survivors, as allies we have a responsibility to a) listen to other survivors even if we disagree with them b) never tell a survivor they deserved their abuse c) if a page you follow dismisses survivor stories and concerns unfollow it and tell them why, only by challenging this derisive attitude towards survivors and abuse can we change how non survivors respond to us.

Above all don't let derision silence you, your story is powerful, that is why they are scared of it and you, be proud, be true to you, and don't let them silence you without consequences.

You're awesome!


Added later ****

So yesterday evening AAV posted this on his blog - of all the comments, at least hundreds, critiquing his piece he picked posts from ONE person to be representative of the opposing arguments put to him and his shallow piece...

Here's a little tip (I'm not sure if you'll need it or not).

"If you want someone to engage you in debate, it's probably not a good idea to bombard their Facebook page with comments calling them a "COMPLETE DICK". Not only is all caps abuse annoying to look at, it's also counter-productive.

I do enjoy getting involved in the debates my posts stimulate when I've got the time, but I'm far more likely to engage with people who avoid slinging insults at me when they didn't like what I said."

All of those contributions and he chooses to attack the least of them, he chooses to attack survivors...
my repsonse to this asshattery is this; -

"You are a dick, an abuse apologist dick. You left comments up, even agreed with comments, actively abusing female commenters on that post and frankly all your work is invalidated by that shallow inaccurate bunch of lies. Also in your edit you STILL failed to acknowledge there are versions of the wheel for male victims, trans victims and a gender neutral version too. 

Your post lacked depth, content, and sources/citations, yet you are still acting justified at attacking women and a life saving resource for women.

You rip up the gendered language without listening to professionals in dv support telling you why gendered wheels for victims of specific genders, male as well as female, helps survivors to recognise the abuse as abuse and begin having a chance of moving forward.

Speaking as a survivor who has worked with a whole range of survivors from many genders and backgrounds the sheer ignorance and yes arrogance of your piece and your subsequent responses, leaves me sickened. 

So sure someone yelling 'dick' at you is pretty pointless but so is focusing on that rather than the reams if reasoned responses from experienced dv people, mainly but not exclusively women. 

You've lost valuable, intelligent, decent supporters through this. If you had any decency you'd choose to at least listen and acknowledge the reasoned, rational, experienced responses you had."

his reply is about as perfect an example of white male privilege as you can get, the red pillers couldn't do better; -

" Another Angry Voice "Attacking women" "abuse apologist" - you lose credibility when you just make stuff up to suit your argument. 

Cite me some sources to back up these outlandish claims or admit your utter hypocrisy (your post lacked ... sources")."

And just for extra proof that some women don't know that hating feminism is akin to self hatred, oh and several sterling attempts to silence survivors here's one Jan Cook; -

"Jan Cook Seems to me that you are still carrying all that baggage. If these posts upset you don't torture yourself by reading them - insults add nothing to rational debate and won't make the world a better place"

To which I replied; -

 Jan Cook that's the best you can do? All those points and your response is basically 'you're too emotional'? Very rational :-S In case you missed it there WAS a rational debate, or an attempt st one, sadly the rational posts by experienced dv people of all genders were ignored and the basically pissed on by AAVs subsequent posts. He made zero attempt to engage anyone in a reasoned discussion, he chose to dismiss insights from dv people. Now you have the ignorance to tell me because I dare to speak up and be honest about my experiences I should be quiet? While I'm sure it makes life easier for you if survivors keep quiet and don't say our piece we're told to be silent and unheard enough thank you. Try listening instead of jumping to stupid ignorant conclusions.

To which she tries to pretend she didn't basically say "you're too emotional to be rational"; -

"Where in my post does it imply you are too emotional? It is something you feel strongly about, and you are very obviously putting a lot of anger in to your posts.You are reading 'put downs' into innocent comments - that is feminism (or any other kind of 'ism') in it's worst possible form. Calling me stupid and ignorant demonstrates that you are not arguing rationally. Insults have no place in a rational debate. No one expects you to keep quiet about the damage you have suffered - but taking your wrath out on other people will not change the fact that it happened. I have suffered emotional abuse, but one has to let it go. Reliving bad experiences over and over just means punishing and distressing ourselves unnecessarily - life really does go on. Giving oneself permission to let past events tarnish what is in the present, will never be compatible with true happiness.So, as I said in my previous post, (and meant it kindly) don't torture yourself by reading topics that upset you." 

And so again my reply is; -

"(To) Jan Cook. You dismiss feminism yet you are here typing your opinions in the public sphere - without feminism you wouldn't have that, you have a right to earn an income in your own name, you owe that to feminism, you have a legal right not to be raped, not even y your husband/wife - you owe that to feminism ... be dismissive of it if you so choose, again you owe that to feminism. So yes I label you ignorant of feminism and ignorant of why I speak out in the manner I do - the latter you only need to listen but you aren't doing that either." 

A selection of my other responses to equal facile woman silencing attempts: -

" Lewis Marche you don't change something by being silent. 

I no longer follow this page, but I'm disappointed in AAVs complete dismissal of genuine, rational points made by good people experienced in dv support work. AAV on other topics has proven himself better than this. I had hoped he might at the very least acknowledge there are legitimate counter points to his original, instead of the arrogant dismissal of those of us who put those counter points across as simply angry feminists. Most of us did so initially without swearing, if you're ignored for long enough, and then have your experiences further labelled inconsequential the you will swear too. The fault lies with whomever refuses to listen."

A typical male reply to my above initial response to AAVs apologist bs; -

"Becca all your points sound valid. Why the need to diminish the strength of your arguments by resorting to ad hominem?"

My response, please feel free to bastardise it for your own needs when you're challenged in a like manner, though it only works if your prior non sweary responses are in black and white (if you don't control the thread/forum delete/edit options then I suggest copying everything into a word doc); -

"Stefan Haselwimmer
I posted many posts without swearing or personal remarks as did others AAV chose to ignore them and pretend all those disagreeing had no valid points and were all angry and attacking.
When someone does you and those like you an injustice you will shout and make personal remarks to be heard too.
It's essentially what direct action is."

He hasn't replied to that yet.


This whole issue is a prime example of white male privilege, talk about activism by the oppressed for the oppressed, whine it isn't about you, tell the oppressed you know better than they do and they need to get in line and stop being angry.  those "not all men" "all lives matter" imbeciles all seem to be the same people... funny that.